Bláland - blámenn
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Bláland - blámenn
I John Haywood's "Encyclopaedia of the Viking Age" står der følgende -
"Bláland: Term used by Viking Age Scandinavians to describe North Africa. Moors from North Africa and Spain who were taken prisoner during Hastein's and Bjorn Ironside's Viking raids in the Mediterranean (859-62) and who finished up on the Dublin slave market were described as blue men (Norse blámenn, Irish fir gorm)."
Hvad er kilden til denne oplysning om 'blámenn' - hvorfor er de blå - og hvordan endte disse folk på markedet i Dublin?
"Bláland: Term used by Viking Age Scandinavians to describe North Africa. Moors from North Africa and Spain who were taken prisoner during Hastein's and Bjorn Ironside's Viking raids in the Mediterranean (859-62) and who finished up on the Dublin slave market were described as blue men (Norse blámenn, Irish fir gorm)."
Hvad er kilden til denne oplysning om 'blámenn' - hvorfor er de blå - og hvordan endte disse folk på markedet i Dublin?
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com
- Dag den vise
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 977
- Blev medlem: 15 december 2012, 21:41
- Ort: Östra Svealand
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Ordet blå hade under vikingatiden även betydelsen svart, så översatt till nutida svenska blir alltså Blåland Svartland.
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Ja, det ser ud til at ’blá’ på oldnordisk betyder blå, men også sort.Dag den vise skrev:Ordet blå hade under vikingatiden även betydelsen svart, så översatt till nutida svenska blir alltså Blåland Svartland.
Det oldn. ’blámi’ betyder blåne eller mørkne.
Så det oldn. ’blámaðr’ bliver en blaman, bloaman i betydning sort mand eller neger.
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Der er ikke meget litteratur at finde om 'blámenn'. Her er hvad jeg pt. har fundet frem til.
'Magnúss sona saga' fortæller om => hedenske blámenn
'Sigurd Jorsalafar' fortæller om => herr mikill heiðinna blámanna
'Magnúss sona saga' fortæller om => hedenske blámenn
'Sigurd Jorsalafar' fortæller om => herr mikill heiðinna blámanna
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Jeg har fundet en artikel fra år 2000 skrevet af en David Nicolle. Emnet for artiklen er "The Defence of Spain and Morocco against the Vikings 844-97AD". Artiklen er utrolig spændende og bringer mange interessante synspunkter. Jeg bringer her et relevant udklip -
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/article ... nst_majus/"Vikings would not reappear on the Andalusian coast for another seventy or so year, but their first two raids were already famous in the far north. Bjørn Jernside and Hasting sold most of their prisoners for ransom but some unfortunates were kept because of their exotic appearance. These included black African, or very dark-skinned Saharan Berbers, captured at Nakur.
Some ended up in Ireland where they were mentioned in early Irish annals as fir gorm 'blue men' or blámenn 'black men.' When the Irish retook Limerick from the Vikings their booty also included a magnificent Moorish saddle and colored silk garments from the Islamic lands".
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Ser vi på artiklens kildeliste, er en del af stoffet taget fra samtidens annaler fra det Islamiske Kalifat. Det giver så svaret på den manglende europæiske samtidslitteratur.Karsten Krambs skrev:Jeg har fundet en artikel fra år 2000 skrevet af en David Nicolle. Emnet for artiklen er "The Defence of Spain and Morocco against the Vikings 844-97AD". Artiklen er utrolig spændende og bringer mange interessante synspunkter.
Sources skrev:Christides, V., 'Milaha' (navigation, seamanship) in Encyclopedia of Islam, 2nd edition, vol. VII (Leiden 1991) pp. 40-46
Dunlop, D. M., 'al-Bahr al-Muhit,' (Encircling Sea, including the Atlantic) in Encyclopedia of Islam, 2nd edition, vol. I (Leiden 1960) p. 934
Dunlop, D. M., 'Djaza'ir al-Khalida,' (Canary Islands, etc.) in Encyclopedia of Islam, 2nd edition, vol. II (Leiden 1965) p. 522
Dunlop, D. M., 'The British Isles according to Medieval Arabic Authors,' Islamic Quarterly IV (1957) pp. 11-28
Griffith, P., The Viking Art of War (London 1995)
Jones, G., A History of the Vikings (Oxford 1968)
Lévi-Provençal, E., Histoire de l'Espagne Musulmane, 3 vols. (Paris 1950-1967)
Lévi-Provençal, E., L'Espagne Musulmane au Xème Siècle (Paris 1932).
Melvinger, A., 'Al-Madjus,' in Encyclopedia of Islam, 2nd edition, vol. V (Leiden 1986) pp. 1118-1121
Melvinger, A., Les premières incursions des Vikings en Occident d'après les sources arabes (Uppsala 1955)
Munis, H., 'Contribution à l'étude des invasions des Normands en Espagne' Bulletin de la Société Royale d'Etudes Historiques, Egypte vol. II/1 (1950)
Nicolle, D., 'Shipping in Islamic Art: Seventh Through Sixteenth Century AD' American Neptune XLIX (1989) pp. 168-197.
Oxenstierna, E., trans. C. Hunter, The Norsemen (London 1966).
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Samme forfatter har i samtidens annaler fra det Islamiske Kalifat fundet frem til følgende -Karsten Krambs skrev:Jeg har fundet en artikel fra år 2000 skrevet af en David Nicolle. Emnet for artiklen er "The Defence of Spain and Morocco against the Vikings 844-97AD"."Vikings would not reappear on the Andalusian coast for another seventy or so year, but their first two raids were already famous in the far north. Bjørn Jernside and Hasting sold most of their prisoners for ransom but some unfortunates were kept because of their exotic appearance. These included black African, or very dark-skinned Saharan Berbers, captured at Nakur.
Some ended up in Ireland where they were mentioned in early Irish annals as fir gorm 'blue men' or blámenn 'black men.' When the Irish retook Limerick from the Vikings their booty also included a magnificent Moorish saddle and colored silk garments from the Islamic lands".
“There is strong, though not conclusive, evidence that in 845 AD Abd al-Rahman II also sent a high ranking embassy to what was believed to be the country of 'The King of the Majus'. This might have travelled to king Horik in Denmark, but seems more likely to have gone to the important Viking city of Dublin in Ireland which was dominated by a man called Turgeis. The head of the Andalusian deputation is said to have been the fifty year old poet and experienced diplomat Yahya ibn Hakam al-Bakri al-Ghazal, who had led a similar embassy to the Byzantine Emperor in 840 AD. Their trip took nine perilous months and may have been as much to encourage peaceful trade as to learn more about these fearsome northerners”.
Kilde: “Moors against Majus: The Defence of Spain and Morocco against the Vikings 844-97 AD” af David Nicolle 2001. Osprey Military Journal 2/3 (2001) 23-32.
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Och kung Harald Gormssons tänder var antagligen svarta.Dag den vise skrev:Ordet blå hade under vikingatiden även betydelsen svart, så översatt till nutida svenska blir alltså Blåland Svartland.
- Karsten Krambs
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 1496
- Blev medlem: 13 juli 2009, 18:02
- Ort: Danmark
- Kontakt:
Re: Bláland - blámenn
Ja, derfor han hedder Blåtand (blátand).ERland skrev:Och kung Harald Gormssons tänder var antagligen svarta.Dag den vise skrev:Ordet blå hade under vikingatiden även betydelsen svart, så översatt till nutida svenska blir alltså Blåland Svartland.
Privat site: https://vikingetiden44096621.wordpress.com