Vikingahjälmsinfo sökes

[SCULTORE]

Hej alla, jag ber om ursäkt för min dåliga svenska, men jag hjälp med en Google översättare, jag måste införa en skulptör av historiska miniatyrer, och jag kom till detta forum efter mycket forskning.

Jag behöver din hjälp, jag letar efter bilder av Viking hjälmar som faktiskt finns som historiska artefakter, jag menar de med vingarna, eller modellen med horn ..... Jag har några tvivel om deras verkliga historiska exakthet.

Om någon kan ge mig information jag skulle vara mycket tacksam.


Edit: ändrade trådtiteln. - B Hellqvist

[Hans]

Välkommen.

Du har rätt i att vara skeptisk.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... ir-helmets

MVH

Hans

[Hexmaster]

jag menar de med vingarna, eller modellen med horn ..... Jag har några tvivel om deras verkliga historiska exakthet.

Nej, sådana hjälmar finns inte. Man har hittat några äldre med horn. Inga från vikingatiden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_helmet

Vingarna kommer tydligen från gallerna (som Asterix). De kunde användas i ritualer. I strid är horn och vingar ingen bra idé...

[Schwemppa]

Väldigt få hjälmar från vikingatiden har bevarats, faktiskt. Det främsta fyndet torde vara hjälmen från Gjermundbu i Norge.

http://www.vikingrune.com/2009/01/viking-helmet/

[SCULTORE]

Då som jag föreställt mig, och vingarna är att hornen användes bara i ritualer, men alla på webben kan ses hjälmar med horn av olika former och storlekar, som vill göra en vikingahövding i rituella kläder, jag undrar vilken av dessa hjälmar är faktiskt fanns. Tack för alla dina bilder, och för den hjälp.

[SCULTORE]

här är det här är en bild som har fått i uppdrag av en kund och skulle vilja veta om det verkligen kunde vara i en situation som ritual klänning, faktum är att jag tvivlar på hjälmen och även för träklubba.

Tyvärr, ber jag om ursäkt men jag inser att andra historiska perioder och jag är verkligen förbryllad om vikingarna.

[Schwemppa]

Tyvärr, den där bilden av en viking har sitt ursprung i ett romantiserande 1800-tal, bland annat illustrationerna till "Frithiofs saga" av Esaias Tegnér...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vi ... l_01.shtml

[SCULTORE]

så det är helt fantastiskt? ...... synd men jag inbillade mig att det var så totalt ...... Jag trodde att hjälmen och över träklubba ........ resten av hans kläder var rimligt.

Hur som helst Tack för dina svar i detta skede om någon av er har en vacker bild av en Viking skulle gärna se dem.

Hälsningar Maurizio

[Hans]

De som sysslar med reenactment brukar vara ganska nogranna med att vara realistiska - titta runt lite på deras hemsidor.

http://www.google.be/#hl=en&sugexp=gsis ... 7931f754b6

MVH

Hans

[Schwemppa]

Den här hittade jag av en händelse - en blogg om att vara viking.

http://thevikinghersir.blogspot.com/201 ... chive.html

[Odinkarr]

Scultore - Sculptorman

Let me reply in English. Google tends to get a better translation in to Italian from English.

As with all things we need to ensure that we are on the same page in time and place when seeking to ascertain what we know about helmets in use north the River Ejder.

Secondly, we need to be clear on the purpose of the helmet in question; did it serve as a protective headgear for a warrior? Or did it serve a shamanic use in rituals? Once we have considered these possibilities we can make sense of the findings we have.

Horned helmets did indeed exist and have been evidenced from the Bronze Age onwards.

The most splendid examples in the world are the helmets from about 1000 BCE found by Viksø, Denmark on the island of Zealand, just North of Copenhagen.

The National Museum of Copenhagen displays them here:

http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstillingen/ ... anguage/u/

We also have them in miniature form from 1000 BCE, which might be useful to you. Take a look here:

http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstillingen/ ... zealderen/




In the Bronze Age, in Scandinavia and before and during the Trojan War, it would appear that the helmets were also used as protective headgear in warfare. I have shown a number of these in my chapter “Vandfolket “Danu/Denen/Denyen” fra egyptiske indskrifter”:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap5-10-2.html#toc12-6

The horned helmets shown are all used to transform the warrior in to the principal deity of the Bronze Age – Tyr (The raging Bull).

Moving forward in time, the Cimbrians in Jutland, Denmark likewise used helmets displaying a variety of animals. We know this from the Gundestrup Cauldron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundestrup_cauldron ), part of which I display in my chapter “Fióni, kimbrerne og omkring”:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap16-1.html#toc64


On “Inner Plate No. 3 or Plate E” we see four mounted warriors with helmets displaying feathers (perhaps a Cock’s Comb), antlers, a bird of prey and a wild boar. The Cauldron has been dated to about the 1st Century BCE.

Moving forward in time to the 5th Century ACE the depictions on the Golden Horns, again from Southern Jutland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horns_of_Gallehus ) shows a horned helmet in a shamanic use during the Summer Solstice rite (1st row on the “Short Golden Horn”). I have displayed the depiction in my chapter “Sumarsólstaða – Liða - ætlingen ofres og sommeren komme”:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap20-1.html#toc92


We have many more similar depictions, all in connections with rites and sword and spear dancing. Take a look at my chapter “Sværddans”:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap19-3.html#toc86-2


Of course, also the unhorned helmet could have a display of some sort, as we just saw the Cimbrians do. The finest example is no doubt The Sutton Hoo helmet from East Anglia:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap5-2.html#toc10

The whole front part of the helmet is a bird, we presume a Raven, which would be the guiding spirit of the king in his endeavour to chart the right course and made the correct decisions.

As the king is Odin prior to the 8th Century ACE, we see Odin depicted with precisely the same headgear riding his horse:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap23.html#toc121


The Horn used on horned helmets would have been actual horns, like in drinking horns. The reason for this is that the principal purpose of the horn in ritual usage is to be the pathway of communication between the immortal ancestors in the future and the mortals in the present. Actually very much like a radio antenna.

We know from rock carvings that this was also the understanding in Bronze Age Scandinavia. Have a look at the two horned shamen on top of Christmas Trees in Scandinavia about 1000 BCE:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap22-3.html#toc120


This would explain why we, as far as I know, have not identified any helmet with horns from the 2-7th Century ACE. However, one would have thought that we would then have found the remainder part of the helmet with two holes for the placement of horns. My proposal to as to why this is not the case is that the ritual and horned helmet may have been made entirely from organic material, unlike the military iron and bronze headgear.



The Winged Helmet

In your own neck of the woods you should study the Etruscan king Lars Porsena (about 500 BCE). We have a very good description of his burial site in Clusium (Chiusi, Toscana) from Marcus Trentius Varro (about 116-27 BCE).

On the top of his massive stone temple was displayed a ball [= the Earth]….”and on top of this again a petasus” (i.e. the winged helmet used by Asterix). The purpose of the winged helmet is identical to why the deceased female warriors in Norse thought are dressed in winged swan outfits. Both are messengers between the immortal ancestors in the future and the mortals in the present. The burial site was destroyed in 89 BCE by the Romans.

Anyway, I hope this is of some use. Best of luck.

Regards

Flemming

[SCULTORE]

Dear Flemming thanks for your support and your explanations were very clear, then I saw the helmet Visko found myself is very interesting, and did not know his discovery, doing a study on the other hand ...... ie having this nice helmet you can create the clothing of a Viking leader during the same period? ...... at this point is no longer a difference if dressed as a war or ritual ...... anything goes

Thanks to all pwer your help if you like I can see some of my work.

[Odinkarr]

Clothing:

Se my chapter ” Jólnir – Julens Herre – Julemanden”:

http://www.verasir.dk/show.php?file=cha ... tml#toc112

These are alle depictions of the earliest known Vølver (Völur, Völva, Vala), our term for a shaman, in the Christmas rite the person is known as Jólnir – Lord of the Yule Tide.

Depictions from the 5th and 6th Century ACE allows for a reconstruction from this time period, and this is currently on display at the Museum of Bornholm, Denmark (in the middle of the Baltic Sea). I took a photo of this during a recent visit there.

From China year 1000 BCE we have clothing from the “Cherchen Man” - 2 meter tall with blond hair.

In my chapter “Legion IX Hispania og Legion VI Victrix, Britannien – de sarmatiske ryttere der forsvandt”:

http://www.verasir.dk/show.php?file=cha ... html#toc50

I depict the actual clothing found in Thorsbjerg Mose, Southern Jutland and dated to the 2nd Century ACE (at the end of the chapter).

What you are actually seeing here is the earliest known example of a pair of trousers north of the River Ejder. This is a sarmatian style of clothing and very much explains who we are.

As you probably picked up in my chapter “Sværddans”:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap19-3.html#toc86-2

there is a significant change in customs about year 600 ACE which has to do with a re-interpretation of faith and/or fashion. Up until this point, as Tacitus confirms and all depictions verify, all shamanic rites with a horned helmet are performed in the nude. After this time, we see the same rites performed fully clothed.

Maybe it was just climate change with colder weather that forced the change - we don't really know.

Rgds

Flemming

[SCULTORE]

Thanks for the info, I was wondering one thing ..... have ever been found of archaeological finds in clubs made ​​of wood or bone, or the Vikings scepters?

[Odinkarr]

The sceptre is an evolution of the club and we do have depictions on coins where a king is shown with a club (for example King Skilur here: http://www.verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap14-2.html#toc55 )

However, as you can see in my chapter “Sværddans”:

http://verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap19-3.html#toc86-2


to the best of my knowledge at least, only two types of "ruler tool" appear to be depicted north of the River Ejder.

One is the stick of the vølve (”Völur, Völva”). This stick or wand we call ”völr, riðvölr, snarvölr, stjórnvölr, hjálmunvölr” and I do believe some has been identified as such though I cannot right now recall which museum host them.

The only other organic “tool” which would have been used to demonstrate “power”, leaving aside the spear and the sword, would be the large stick or wand to herd horses.

I my chapter “Hestaþings – hesteskeið – hestavíg – hesta-at” :

http://www.verasir.dk/show.php?file=cha ... l#toc169-1

I show a photograph of the picture stone from Häggeby, Uppland, Sweden dated to year 375-550 (catalogue no. U665). The picture stone shows a horse fight (hestavíg) and each of the horseowners depicted carry a whip in one hand and a ”heststafr, skeidstang” in the other.

Since we are a tribe of horsemen where only a free man can own a horse, and a man that owns a horse is a free man, the display of the stick or wand would classify you as a horseowner and thus a freeborne.

You probably need to speak to the principal museums of Denmark, Norway and Sweden to identify where we keep the actual findings.

I have a couple of other examples where the ”heststafr, skeidstang” is clearly used in a symbolic manner to depict "power".




Man with a ”heststafr, skeidstang” from East Anglia, England about year 670 ACE.





Man with a ”heststafr, skeidstang” from the island of Bornholm dated to year 550-600 ACE


rgds

Flemming