Celtic Historia

Diskussioner kring händelser från de första stapplande stegen till Roms fall.
Celtmists
Medlem
Inlägg: 6
Blev medlem: 24 feb 2017 17:21
Ort: England

Celtic Historia

Inläggav Celtmists » 24 feb 2017 17:58

Hej

Nu medlem här.... :)

Jag har forskat keltisk historia i många år nu i Västeuropa fram till slutet av den romerska invasionen av Portugal och sudvästra Irlande, och intresserad av att veta om det fanns någon kontakt eller inte mellan dem och människorna i Sverige och Norge under denna period.

Tack för ingen hjalp....

koroshiya
Medlem
Inlägg: 1422
Blev medlem: 03 feb 2004 06:51
Ort: Göteborg

Re: Celtic Historia

Inläggav koroshiya » 25 feb 2017 22:33

Välkommen!

Kontakter mellan Västeuropa och Sverige har funnits sedan de allra första tider. Av och till kan man läsa om det keltiska Västergötland, även om det mest bara är några rader i böcker.

Ett exempel från de äldsta tider är våra megalitgravar. Dessa var förstås inte keltiska, men verkar vara del av ett kulturuttryck som spridits från sydväst.

Testa att googla på Västergötland och kelter, eller kelterna. Från järnåldern finns det massa tecken på kulturutbyten. Det handlar om både konst och bruksföremål.

Celtmists
Medlem
Inlägg: 6
Blev medlem: 24 feb 2017 17:21
Ort: England

Re: Celtic Historia

Inläggav Celtmists » 26 feb 2017 18:27

Thanks for your reply and apologies for replying in English as it would be difficult to get some of the ideas and concepts in Swedish across….

Yes I'd already done quite a lot of research on the Net and Google previously as being in the University world anyway, I like to relax when I can with my long-term favourite research subject which is Celtic history.

My overall research goal is to try and discover as the Romans were finally closing in on the remaining Celtic forces on the west coast of Portugal as well as in the far south west of Ireland, if some of them could have possibly escaped either to the Azores or Denmark, Sweden and Norway ? Because as it's a well-known fact that the Celts never left any written evidence of their ways of life, nearly all the information that we have today only comes from Roman sources such as Caesar and many other notable Roman scribes.

My personal theory, when faced with almost certain defeat and the impossible options of either being killed in battle or taken as captives and then murdered later as the Romans were known to be very ruthless, is that many of them whilst there was still time might have chosen to take their chances and sail off to anywhere, even though they most probably had no idea what lay ahead.

So to begin with Portugal first, then Devon in the UK where I live and finally south-west Ireland, Denmark Sweden and Norway.

I've always felt it a strong possibility that the last of the European Celts could well have made their last final major stand in Europe in Lisbon, soon after the death of their highly successful leader Viriatus who was finally murdered by Celtic traitors in the pay of the Romans in 139 BC. Only to be murdered themselves immediately afterwards as the Romans refused to pay traitors !

On the other hand it's possible that I think some of the Celts might have known of the existence of the Azores because only last year, two Portuguese archaeologists fascinatingly revealed they had found rock art on the island of Terceira, as shown in the link below, which they believe predates the arrival of the Portuguese by many thousands of years.

http://portuguese-american-journal.com/ ... on-azores/

Of course this still doesn't prove that the Celts knew about the Azores....

However and as you must well know already, there is the interesting precedent in 1947 when the Norwegian explorer Thor Heyerdahl and five companions built a log raft called Kon-Tiki, and using prevailing winds and currents only left South America covering over 4,300 miles across the Pacific Ocean before finally being wrecked on a reef in the Polynesian islands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition

I think it's important to note at this particular point that because very little major international archaeological work has been undertaken in the Azores Islands so far, exciting new discoveries also predating the arrival of the Portuguese by many thousands of years are now starting to be uncovered every year. I'm also liaising with the local museum in Terceira who have been very helpful.

http://museu-angra.azores.gov.pt/edificios-nucleos.html

One other interesting point which I think should be mentioned regarding Portugal and north-west Spain is the huge number of amazing Iron Age circular earthworks called Castros along the coast of Galicia and facing directly towards the Azores….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castros_(Spain)

http://www.spainisculture.com/en/monume ... tecla.html

http://www.spainisculture.com/en/propue ... licia.html

When time permitted I've spent the last seven or eight years or so here in North Devon where I live as a volunteer with the Exmoor National Park and liaising with the Devon County Archaeologist now and again. Understandably there is very little major Celtic evidence left around here now apart from the usual place names, though there is the amazing North Molton Necklace/Tutankhamun find in the first link below as well as two other interesting links, and how I first became interested in the whole subject of the Celts and Celtic history in the first place.

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=23857

http://www.johnhmoore.co.uk/hele/roman.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumnonia

Finally and bringing things up to today I’m now trying to discover what the Roman’s possible objectives and the Celts’ reactions were once the Romans had landed in Ireland from England and Wales. Whether the final confrontation might have been the same as that facing the last Celtic tribes in Portugal finding themselves cornered in the far SW of Ireland and facing the same threat of being killed in battle, survival or the urgent need to escape, might have chosen to sail to either Denmark, Sweden or Norway.

I'd done quite a bit of research into this option and so far have found a number of references to the Iron Age and the Celts with three particularly interesting Nordic ones listed below, though I'm sure there must be more somewhere.

Firstly a Swedish website regarding an Iron Age Celtic centre in Blekinge, secondly an important Celtic find in Norway the Kolstø grave near Avaldsnes, finally the marvellous Celtic Gundestrup cauldron from Denmark.

1. http://sciencenordic.com/treasure-trove ... n-age-town
2. http://avaldsnes.info/en/historie/kelti ... 00-f-kr-0/
3. http://natmus.dk/historisk-viden/danmar ... igerplade/

Conclusion

Finally and to sum up I've always found it difficult given the warlike nature of the Celts that they would all have simply surrendered in Lisbon or in the South West of Ireland, as they knew the Romans would never give up after their many defeats at the hands of their brilliant leader Viriatus until they were all dead.

A lot of them would no doubt have chosen to die gloriously in battle and some risking surrender. But I think that with the sea behind their backs in both countries together with some knowledge of seafaring, coupled with the recent discoveries of rock art on the island of Terceira in the Azores as well as knowing that there were the lands of Norway, Sweden and Denmark within a few days sailing distance, I've always felt it doesn't make sense to simply ignore the opportunity for the few remaining Celts left and presumably their families to not try to survive somehow.

Be very interested to hear any thoughts and suggestions as to what might have happened in the Nordic countries, especially if anyone is into satellite archaeology....

Thanks :)


Återgå till "Förhistoria, tidiga civilisationer och antiken (8000 fkr till 476)"

Vilka är online

Användare som besöker denna kategori: 0 och 0 gäster