Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
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- Medlem
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Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Jag fick höra att det i Rumänien förekommit uppgifter om att Sovjetunionen varit nära att invadera landet 1968. Som jag förstod det så var det efter invasionen av Tjeckoslovakien som landet sågs som illojalt. Jag har inte hittat info och undrar on någon känner till något eller tips på var jag kan söka.
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- Medlem
- Inlägg: 3109
- Blev medlem: 28 maj 2005, 08:34
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Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Tack, jag har läst dem. De är mer övergripande men intressanta. De tager tyvärr inte upp 1968 specifikt.
Har annars ett tips på intressant läsning om konflikten mellan länderna
http://larrylwatts.blogspot.se/2015/09/ ... e-war.html
Har annars ett tips på intressant läsning om konflikten mellan länderna
http://larrylwatts.blogspot.se/2015/09/ ... e-war.html
- Martin Lundvall
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 5323
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Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Vad menas med nära?
Rumänien sågs som illojal efter Pragvåren och givetvis fanns det tankar på hur detta skulle hanteras. Jag minns inte nu, men jag tror inte jag har läst något mer konkret än det du säger.
Gjordes säkerligen planer, men man bedömde att det inte behövdes.
Jag vet inte heller hur pass nära det faktiskt var, tror på att planer fanns i Sovjetunionen men ej kommunicerat till övriga länder.
/Martin
Rumänien sågs som illojal efter Pragvåren och givetvis fanns det tankar på hur detta skulle hanteras. Jag minns inte nu, men jag tror inte jag har läst något mer konkret än det du säger.
Gjordes säkerligen planer, men man bedömde att det inte behövdes.
Jag vet inte heller hur pass nära det faktiskt var, tror på att planer fanns i Sovjetunionen men ej kommunicerat till övriga länder.
/Martin
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- Medlem
- Inlägg: 3109
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Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Det är det jag försöker få reda på. Rumänien tog ju och började förstärka sitt gränsförsvar mot grannländerna så de verkade ju förbereda sig för en eventuell konflikt. Det jag gissar är att Sovjetunionen ville ha trupper stationerade i landet vilket Rumänien motsatte sig. Det är dessa sovjetiska påtryckningar som jag är intresserad av samt Rumäniens svar.
Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Jag skriver detta bara för att inte glömma att kolla med rumänpolarna jag har.
MVH
Hans
MVH
Hans
- Martin Lundvall
- Medlem
- Inlägg: 5323
- Blev medlem: 22 mars 2003, 10:05
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Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Då förstår jag vad du är ute efter. Se om jag kan hitta/komma på något jag läst
/martin
/martin
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- Medlem
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Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Britterna räknade tydligen med att det kunde bli en sovjetisk invasion med stridsvagnar. 22 november 1968 pekas ut som datum.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... rmation.uk
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... rmation.uk
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- Medlem
- Inlägg: 3109
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Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Från ett rumänskt diskussionsforum
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=6113
"The Warsaw Pact troops were to invade Romania on 22 November 1968, at 4 am, according to documents from the Office of Public Archives in the UK. General ® Neagu Cosma, from the Foreign Intelligence Directorate (DIE), obtained through a Polish officer - which was in contact with Colonel Ion Bichel - information that Brezhnev personally, together with Andropov, head of the KGB and several Red Army commanders have prepared a invasion of Czechoslovakia, Romania and Yugoslavia. Data further disclosed to Ion Stanescu, president of the State Security Council, have shown that this action was due to Kremlin's dissatisfaction over the policy of Dubcek, Ceausescu and Tito. The plan was developed in detail by a team in which the Polish officer was part. The invasion was supposed to take place in stages, first to Czechoslovakia, then at intervals of two to three weeks, were Romania and Yugoslavia. But Nicolae Ceausescu took not seriously the Securitate reports before August 20, 1968.
On August 5, 1968, the Securitate prepare a summary note which shows that the soviet Secret Services had sent to the socialist countries embassies in Romania, under various coatings, especially tourists, well-trained agents with specific operational tasks. After the meeting of 21 August 1968 in front of the CC of the PCR, precautions were taken rapidly, the Securitate troops has been put into a state of alarm, the Securitate central directorates and centers had raised barriers from sandsacks at the windows and doors.
In Ceausescu's conception, in case of war, the Securitate had to be the organizer of a partisan war. There were plans studied for both variants -Ceausescu's evacuation in China, as well as alternative roads to the south of the Carpathians, for a swift and safe travel.
Under this plan, the Soviet troops together with Hungarian and Polish troops were to invade Romania on 22 November at 4.00 am. Total number of invasion troops would reach 150,000 troops, said the document from the British Archives Office revealed to the public in 2000.
Source : Ziare.com
According to a romanian general, who represented Romania in the military structures of CFAU al Tratatului de la Varsovia (the United Military Command of the Warszaw Treaty) interviewed some time ago (2 or 3 years I guess) in the radio broadcast ORA ARMATEI on Radio Romania Actualitati the romanian military and political leadership had informations about at least 2 hungarian and 1 soviet mechanized division (from Hungary) who held intimidation maneuvers directly towards the western border of Romania at end august 1968, with another 2 mechanized divisions (1 hungarian and 1 soviet) which could be added immediately in an offensive action against Romania. Also a polish Detachment (2 Airborne Regiments, 1 Tank and 1 Reconaissance Battalions, and other smaller units) was dislocated in Eastern Hungary and was ready to join a military action against Romania.
He said that other 8 to 10 soviet Divisions (mostly Mechanized but also Tank-) were ready to attack from the north and east (USSR-Ukraine and Bassarabia) our country. Naturally he could not say with certainty if the soviets had a plan or just simulated the preparations of an invasion to intimidate our leadership..."
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=6113
"The Warsaw Pact troops were to invade Romania on 22 November 1968, at 4 am, according to documents from the Office of Public Archives in the UK. General ® Neagu Cosma, from the Foreign Intelligence Directorate (DIE), obtained through a Polish officer - which was in contact with Colonel Ion Bichel - information that Brezhnev personally, together with Andropov, head of the KGB and several Red Army commanders have prepared a invasion of Czechoslovakia, Romania and Yugoslavia. Data further disclosed to Ion Stanescu, president of the State Security Council, have shown that this action was due to Kremlin's dissatisfaction over the policy of Dubcek, Ceausescu and Tito. The plan was developed in detail by a team in which the Polish officer was part. The invasion was supposed to take place in stages, first to Czechoslovakia, then at intervals of two to three weeks, were Romania and Yugoslavia. But Nicolae Ceausescu took not seriously the Securitate reports before August 20, 1968.
On August 5, 1968, the Securitate prepare a summary note which shows that the soviet Secret Services had sent to the socialist countries embassies in Romania, under various coatings, especially tourists, well-trained agents with specific operational tasks. After the meeting of 21 August 1968 in front of the CC of the PCR, precautions were taken rapidly, the Securitate troops has been put into a state of alarm, the Securitate central directorates and centers had raised barriers from sandsacks at the windows and doors.
In Ceausescu's conception, in case of war, the Securitate had to be the organizer of a partisan war. There were plans studied for both variants -Ceausescu's evacuation in China, as well as alternative roads to the south of the Carpathians, for a swift and safe travel.
Under this plan, the Soviet troops together with Hungarian and Polish troops were to invade Romania on 22 November at 4.00 am. Total number of invasion troops would reach 150,000 troops, said the document from the British Archives Office revealed to the public in 2000.
Source : Ziare.com
According to a romanian general, who represented Romania in the military structures of CFAU al Tratatului de la Varsovia (the United Military Command of the Warszaw Treaty) interviewed some time ago (2 or 3 years I guess) in the radio broadcast ORA ARMATEI on Radio Romania Actualitati the romanian military and political leadership had informations about at least 2 hungarian and 1 soviet mechanized division (from Hungary) who held intimidation maneuvers directly towards the western border of Romania at end august 1968, with another 2 mechanized divisions (1 hungarian and 1 soviet) which could be added immediately in an offensive action against Romania. Also a polish Detachment (2 Airborne Regiments, 1 Tank and 1 Reconaissance Battalions, and other smaller units) was dislocated in Eastern Hungary and was ready to join a military action against Romania.
He said that other 8 to 10 soviet Divisions (mostly Mechanized but also Tank-) were ready to attack from the north and east (USSR-Ukraine and Bassarabia) our country. Naturally he could not say with certainty if the soviets had a plan or just simulated the preparations of an invasion to intimidate our leadership..."
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- Medlem
- Inlägg: 3109
- Blev medlem: 28 maj 2005, 08:34
- Ort: Södermanland
Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
De rumänska motåtgärderna var om jag förstått rätt att man kvarhöll de värnpliktiga som skulle hemförlovats och grundade en paramilitär frivillig styrka för att få tillgång till nationalister som inte var kommunister. Ceausescu höll därtill sitt berömda tal 21 augusti 1968 där han uppmanade till väpnat motstånd om Rumänien skulle invaderas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceau%C8%9 ... ugust_1968
Utdrag ur talet med engelsk översättning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2TQ3jYJzlk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceau%C8%9 ... ugust_1968
Utdrag ur talet med engelsk översättning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2TQ3jYJzlk
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- Utsparkad
- Inlägg: 131
- Blev medlem: 13 april 2013, 11:46
Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Eftersom Rumänien är en romansk kultur, liksom Frankrike och har en huvudstad delvis byggd med Paris som förebild, så finns det kanske en parallell till att deGaulle då (sedan 10 år?) varit en NATO-medlem med reservationer. Kanske det inspirerade genuint oberoende? Kanske Rumäniens reservationer var iscensatta av Moskva för att försöka stärka denna lilla splittring inom NATO, genom att som charad låtsas om motsvarande inom WP?
I slutändan stred väl säkerhetstrupperna Securitate verkligen mot Sovjetiska soldater i Bukarest?
I slutändan stred väl säkerhetstrupperna Securitate verkligen mot Sovjetiska soldater i Bukarest?
Re: Konflikt Sovjet-Rumänien 1968
Jag har inte sållat men här är vad jag fick mig tillsänt. Google translate till engelska funkar oftast bra och de två sista har jag hittat själv (edit: jag lovar pandersson2 ).
http://rseri.srpsec.ro/wp-content/uploa ... -71-80.pdf
http://www.romanialibera.ro/special/doc ... rss-311238
http://www.historia.ro/exclusiv_web/gen ... tic-n-1968
http://adevarul.ro/news/societate/augus ... index.html
http://vladimirrosulescu-istorie.blogsp ... -1968.html
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/f ... -11-17.pdf
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... rmation.uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXPHSv4CSts
MVH
Hans
http://rseri.srpsec.ro/wp-content/uploa ... -71-80.pdf
http://www.romanialibera.ro/special/doc ... rss-311238
http://www.historia.ro/exclusiv_web/gen ... tic-n-1968
http://adevarul.ro/news/societate/augus ... index.html
http://vladimirrosulescu-istorie.blogsp ... -1968.html
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/f ... -11-17.pdf
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... rmation.uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXPHSv4CSts
MVH
Hans