Under krigets slutskede, eller inbördesstriderna i Grekland efteråt sändes (hur) uppenbarligen flera tusen grekiska barn till Tjeckoslovakien för att omhändertagas tills förhållandena i Grekland stabiliserades. Efter den 'stabiliseringen' - vilken lämnade Grekland utanför kommunistblocket drog den tjeckiska regeringen fötterna i frågan om repatriering av dessa barn tillbaka till Grekland, efter kommunistkuppen i Prag 1948. Röda Korsets intervention ignorerades av tjeckerna och när dåvarande Generalsekreteraren i FN, norrmannen Trygve Lie, vid personligt besök i Moskva 1949 tog upp frågan med Stalin själv - lät denne sin utrikesminister Vyshinskij, bara svara - att 'barnen har det nog bättre i Tjeckoslovakien'. På Lie's fråga hur Vyshinskij trodde barnens föräldrar i Grekland uppfattade det - ryckte bara Stalins utrikesminister på axlarna.
Min fråga; vet någon om dessa grekiska barn någonsin repatrierades - eller vad som hände med dem?
Grekiska barn - efter VK 2 i Tjeckoslovakien?
Re: Grekiska barn - efter VK 2 i Tjeckoslovakien?
varjag,
Jag ska kolla på måndag - eftersom jag känner mycket väl en bunt svartskallar* (greker) på jobbet. Ett par av dem är också intresserade av historia. I värsta fall får du påminna mig.
MVH
Hans
Om någon tycker illa om dem så skall ni få med mig att göra, jag är utsedd til hedersgrek!
Jag ska kolla på måndag - eftersom jag känner mycket väl en bunt svartskallar* (greker) på jobbet. Ett par av dem är också intresserade av historia. I värsta fall får du påminna mig.
MVH
Hans
Om någon tycker illa om dem så skall ni få med mig att göra, jag är utsedd til hedersgrek!
Re: Grekiska barn - efter VK 2 i Tjeckoslovakien?
Hans skrev: Om någon tycker illa om dem så skall ni få med mig att göra, jag är utsedd til hedersgrek!
Haha, då är vi två
Re: Grekiska barn - efter VK 2 i Tjeckoslovakien?
Jag har nu ställt frågan till en bunt greker och väntar på svar. Hittade under tiden själv detta:
During the civil war of 1946-1948, Greek Communists kept records on all the children aged three to fourteen in all the areas they controlled. In March 1948 these children were gathered together in the border regions, and several thousand were taken into Albania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia. The villagers tried to protect their children by hiding them in the woods. The Red Cross, despite the enormous obstacles placed in [its] path, managed to count 28,296. In the summer of 1948, when the Tito-Cominform rupture became apparent, 11,600 of the children in Yugoslavia were moved to Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Poland, despite many protests from the Greek government. On 17 November 1948, the Third UN General assembly passed a resolution roundly condemning the removal of the Greek children. In November 1949 the General Assembly again demanded their return. These and all subsequent UN resolutions remained unanswered. The neighboring Communist regimes claimed that the children were being kept under conditions superior to those they would be experiencing at home, and that the deportation had been an humanitarian act.
In reality the enforced deportation of the children was carried out in appalling conditions. Starvation and epidemics were extremely common, and many of the children simply died. Kept together in "children's villages," they were subjected to courses in politics in addition to their normal education. At age thirteen they were forced into manual labor, carrying out arduous tasks such as land reclamation in the marshy Hartchag region of Hungary. The intention of the Communist leaders was to form a new generation of devoted militants, but their efforts ended in failure. One Greek called Constantinides died on the Hungarian side fighting the Soviet Union in 1956. Others managed to flee to West Germany.
From 1950 to 1952 only 684 children were permitted to return to Greece. By 1963, around 4000 children (some of them born in Communist countries) had been repatriated. In Poland, the Greek community numbered several thousand in the early 1980s. Some of them were members of Solidarity, and were imprisoned after the introduction of martial law in December 1981. In 1989, when democratization was well under way, several thousand Greeks still living in Poland began to return home.
http://www.grecoreport.com/the_black_bo ... il_war.htm
MVH
Hans
During the civil war of 1946-1948, Greek Communists kept records on all the children aged three to fourteen in all the areas they controlled. In March 1948 these children were gathered together in the border regions, and several thousand were taken into Albania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia. The villagers tried to protect their children by hiding them in the woods. The Red Cross, despite the enormous obstacles placed in [its] path, managed to count 28,296. In the summer of 1948, when the Tito-Cominform rupture became apparent, 11,600 of the children in Yugoslavia were moved to Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Poland, despite many protests from the Greek government. On 17 November 1948, the Third UN General assembly passed a resolution roundly condemning the removal of the Greek children. In November 1949 the General Assembly again demanded their return. These and all subsequent UN resolutions remained unanswered. The neighboring Communist regimes claimed that the children were being kept under conditions superior to those they would be experiencing at home, and that the deportation had been an humanitarian act.
In reality the enforced deportation of the children was carried out in appalling conditions. Starvation and epidemics were extremely common, and many of the children simply died. Kept together in "children's villages," they were subjected to courses in politics in addition to their normal education. At age thirteen they were forced into manual labor, carrying out arduous tasks such as land reclamation in the marshy Hartchag region of Hungary. The intention of the Communist leaders was to form a new generation of devoted militants, but their efforts ended in failure. One Greek called Constantinides died on the Hungarian side fighting the Soviet Union in 1956. Others managed to flee to West Germany.
From 1950 to 1952 only 684 children were permitted to return to Greece. By 1963, around 4000 children (some of them born in Communist countries) had been repatriated. In Poland, the Greek community numbered several thousand in the early 1980s. Some of them were members of Solidarity, and were imprisoned after the introduction of martial law in December 1981. In 1989, when democratization was well under way, several thousand Greeks still living in Poland began to return home.
http://www.grecoreport.com/the_black_bo ... il_war.htm
MVH
Hans
varjag,
Inte mycket mer än detta från mina grekiska vänner...
Πάβελ Χράντετσνι γεννήθηκε το 1938 στο Μπρνο όπου σπούδασε ιστορία και τσεχική γλώσσα. Παρακολούθησε εκπαιδευτικά προγράµµατα στην Αλβανία και Σερβία και από το 1966 εργάζεται στην τσεχική Ακαδηµία Επιστηµών. Μιλά αγγλικά, γερµανικά, αλβανικά, ελληνικά και σερβικά. Έχει ειδικευτεί σε θέµατα Βαλκανικής ιστορίας και δηµοσίευσε δεκάδες σχετικών επιστηµονικών εργασιών και µελετών. Συµµετείχε στην πενταµελή οµάδα που συνέγραψαν την έξοχη έκδοση Ιστορία της Ελλάδας (εκδόθηκε το 1999). Πέρυσι εξέδωσε επίσης τη µελέτη Έλληνες και Τούρκοι: Σύµµαχοι ή εχθροί
Η νεώτερη µελέτη του για τον Ελληνισµό της Τσεχοσλοβακίας χωρίζεται σε τέσσερα κεφάλαια.
Το πρώτο κεφάλαιο φέρει τον τίτλο «Ιστορικές προϋποθέσεις για την εγκατάσταση της ελληνικής κοινότητας στην Τσεχοσλοβακία» Aποτελεί µια περιγραφή της «προϊστορίας» του ερχοµού στην Τσεχοσλοβακία των 12.000 περίπου πολιτικών προσφύγων (µετά τους πρόσφυγες της πρώην Σοβιετικής Ένωσης η πολυπληθέστερη κοινότητα προσφύγων). Αναφέρεται στις καθαρά πολιτικές αιτίες της προσφυγιάς µε παράλληλες αναφορές στις διεθνείς εξελίξεις που αφορούσαν τον εµφύλιο της Ελλάδας κατά την τριετία 1946-1949.
«Ο ερχοµός των παιδιών από την Ελλάδα – Απαγωγή ή σωτηρία;»
Το εκτενές αυτό κεφάλαιο αφιερώνεται στο λεγόµενο «παιδοµάζωμα». Στην πρώην Τσεχοσλοβακία αφίχθηκαν – από την Άνοιξη του 1948 µέχρι το 1949 - 3.900 παιδιά από την Ελλάδα. Σύµφωνα µε αναλυτικά στοιχεία του τσ. Ερυθρού Σταυρού «το 1/4 αυτών των παιδιών ήταν σλαβόφωνα.
Maskinöversatt till:
Pa'vel Hra'ntetsnj was given birth in 1938 in the Brno where studied history and Czech language. It watched educational progra'µµata in Albania and Serbia and from 1966 it works in the Czech Akadiµj'a Epjstiµw'n. Speak English, gerµanjka', Albanian, Greek and Serbian. It has been specialised in ce'µata Balkan history and diµosj'eyse tens of relative epjstiµonjkw'n work and µeletw'n. Syµµetej'he in the pentaµeli' oµa'da that syne'graban e'xohi publication History of Greece (it was published in 1999). Pe'rysj it published also µele'ti Greek and Turks: Sy'µµahoj or enemies Newer µele'ti his for the Ellinjsµo' of Czechoslovakia it is separated in four chapters. The first chapter brings the title "Historical conditions for the installation of Greek community in Czechoslovakia" Constitutes µja description of "prehistory" erhoµoy' in Czechoslovakia of 12.000 roughly political refugees (µeta' the refugees of former Soviet Union the polyplice'steri community of refugees). It is reported in the clearly political causes of prosfygja's µe parallel reports in the international developments that concerned eµfy'ljo Greece at three-year period 1946-1949. "Erhoµo's the children from Greece - Kidnapping or salvation" This extensive capital is dedicated in lego'µeno "pajdoµa'zwma". In former Czechoslovakia afj'hcikan - from the Spring 1948 µe'hrj in 1949 - 3.900 children from Greece. Sy'µfwna µe analytic elements ts. Red Cross of "the 1/4 of these children were slavo'fwna. H then leadership of KK Czechoslovakia of antjµetw'pjse erhoµo' children very positively, no µo'no in the base of directives of Moscow and relative ajtiµa'twn the KKE but him considered µja good occasion for the demonstration of class solidarity.
Inte för att man blir så mycket klokare på det
Hursomhelst, i sammanhanget rekommenderar jag varmt den första källan Kommunismens svarta bok av Stéphane Courtois m.fl. http://www.bokforlagetdn.se/1100/1100.a ... 9175882299
eller på engelska http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 3?v=glance
MVH
Hans
Inte mycket mer än detta från mina grekiska vänner...
Πάβελ Χράντετσνι γεννήθηκε το 1938 στο Μπρνο όπου σπούδασε ιστορία και τσεχική γλώσσα. Παρακολούθησε εκπαιδευτικά προγράµµατα στην Αλβανία και Σερβία και από το 1966 εργάζεται στην τσεχική Ακαδηµία Επιστηµών. Μιλά αγγλικά, γερµανικά, αλβανικά, ελληνικά και σερβικά. Έχει ειδικευτεί σε θέµατα Βαλκανικής ιστορίας και δηµοσίευσε δεκάδες σχετικών επιστηµονικών εργασιών και µελετών. Συµµετείχε στην πενταµελή οµάδα που συνέγραψαν την έξοχη έκδοση Ιστορία της Ελλάδας (εκδόθηκε το 1999). Πέρυσι εξέδωσε επίσης τη µελέτη Έλληνες και Τούρκοι: Σύµµαχοι ή εχθροί
Η νεώτερη µελέτη του για τον Ελληνισµό της Τσεχοσλοβακίας χωρίζεται σε τέσσερα κεφάλαια.
Το πρώτο κεφάλαιο φέρει τον τίτλο «Ιστορικές προϋποθέσεις για την εγκατάσταση της ελληνικής κοινότητας στην Τσεχοσλοβακία» Aποτελεί µια περιγραφή της «προϊστορίας» του ερχοµού στην Τσεχοσλοβακία των 12.000 περίπου πολιτικών προσφύγων (µετά τους πρόσφυγες της πρώην Σοβιετικής Ένωσης η πολυπληθέστερη κοινότητα προσφύγων). Αναφέρεται στις καθαρά πολιτικές αιτίες της προσφυγιάς µε παράλληλες αναφορές στις διεθνείς εξελίξεις που αφορούσαν τον εµφύλιο της Ελλάδας κατά την τριετία 1946-1949.
«Ο ερχοµός των παιδιών από την Ελλάδα – Απαγωγή ή σωτηρία;»
Το εκτενές αυτό κεφάλαιο αφιερώνεται στο λεγόµενο «παιδοµάζωμα». Στην πρώην Τσεχοσλοβακία αφίχθηκαν – από την Άνοιξη του 1948 µέχρι το 1949 - 3.900 παιδιά από την Ελλάδα. Σύµφωνα µε αναλυτικά στοιχεία του τσ. Ερυθρού Σταυρού «το 1/4 αυτών των παιδιών ήταν σλαβόφωνα.
Maskinöversatt till:
Pa'vel Hra'ntetsnj was given birth in 1938 in the Brno where studied history and Czech language. It watched educational progra'µµata in Albania and Serbia and from 1966 it works in the Czech Akadiµj'a Epjstiµw'n. Speak English, gerµanjka', Albanian, Greek and Serbian. It has been specialised in ce'µata Balkan history and diµosj'eyse tens of relative epjstiµonjkw'n work and µeletw'n. Syµµetej'he in the pentaµeli' oµa'da that syne'graban e'xohi publication History of Greece (it was published in 1999). Pe'rysj it published also µele'ti Greek and Turks: Sy'µµahoj or enemies Newer µele'ti his for the Ellinjsµo' of Czechoslovakia it is separated in four chapters. The first chapter brings the title "Historical conditions for the installation of Greek community in Czechoslovakia" Constitutes µja description of "prehistory" erhoµoy' in Czechoslovakia of 12.000 roughly political refugees (µeta' the refugees of former Soviet Union the polyplice'steri community of refugees). It is reported in the clearly political causes of prosfygja's µe parallel reports in the international developments that concerned eµfy'ljo Greece at three-year period 1946-1949. "Erhoµo's the children from Greece - Kidnapping or salvation" This extensive capital is dedicated in lego'µeno "pajdoµa'zwma". In former Czechoslovakia afj'hcikan - from the Spring 1948 µe'hrj in 1949 - 3.900 children from Greece. Sy'µfwna µe analytic elements ts. Red Cross of "the 1/4 of these children were slavo'fwna. H then leadership of KK Czechoslovakia of antjµetw'pjse erhoµo' children very positively, no µo'no in the base of directives of Moscow and relative ajtiµa'twn the KKE but him considered µja good occasion for the demonstration of class solidarity.
Inte för att man blir så mycket klokare på det
Hursomhelst, i sammanhanget rekommenderar jag varmt den första källan Kommunismens svarta bok av Stéphane Courtois m.fl. http://www.bokforlagetdn.se/1100/1100.a ... 9175882299
eller på engelska http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 3?v=glance
MVH
Hans
Tack Hans för dom raderna - grekiska var kanske inte mitt huvudämne på gymnasiet - men jag fattar att de grekiska siffrorna ngt skiljer sig från de i 'den svarta boken'. För vars rekommendation jag tackar - men fruktar att mitt blodtryck kunde stegras till farliga värden - om jag läste den. Efter ett livslångt studium av kommunismens gissel - kan den kanske inte tillföra mera än någon eller några millioner av ruinerade mänskliga liv och förhoppningar - en droppe i havet.